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Post by raj2112 on Jan 3, 2009 23:25:28 GMT
now is there any more information you need to know about carniny? He would like to know what Carniny's score was on Saturday morning Keeler. |
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Post by doc on Jan 4, 2009 13:38:44 GMT
for anyone on here to suggest Ballykeel or Carniny only have a problem cause the other team is made up of foreign nationals is pure and utter s**te. we played them earlier in the year and had a great game of football against them, not a problem with them at all, they bring something fresh and new to our league and are a cracking football team. and for someone to bang on about them only being in our league for a year and not knowing the final is played on Boxing Day is just pure pish and a problem for their committee or management team. why make acceptions just cos their foreingers, id bang on about it if it was any other team. the fact is they got to a prestigious final and all credit to them but if they cant field a team they should have been booted out. i know monte and the rest of the league committee have done a superb job in running our league for countless years but the fact they have let this happen is an embarrassment to our great league.  shame on those who accuse teams of being racist |
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Post by keeler82 on Jan 4, 2009 17:40:12 GMT
think it was one nil to carniny raj!! ps think the cats got bfp's tongue.
doc you have it right mate some people need to check the facts before they come on shouting their mouths off!!
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Post by jnr88 on Jan 5, 2009 8:06:02 GMT
by carniny agreeing to calling off the semi final with ballykeel on the 13th did this not jeapordise the "annual" boxing day final??? yes carniny did get a league game arranged for this day and it was called off, but what is the difference between calling the semi final off for a team missing a few players and calling the final off for a team missing players??
what facts are we talking about here when we say get our facts rite?? as i mentioned earlier in the post the traditional boxing day final has only taken place once in the last 5 years, and since 2000 it has only been on boxing morning 3 times max!! all these were re arranged for various reasons, weather, a protest by a team and one year it didnt take place until may due to a boycott of wakehurst by the teams who use it!! should these teams been booted out of the competition?? and was it an embarrassment these years that the final wasnt played on time???
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Post by Header on Jan 5, 2009 13:57:26 GMT
by carniny agreeing to calling off the semi final with ballykeel on the 13th did this not jeapordise the "annual" boxing day final??? yes carniny did get a league game arranged for this day and it was called off, but what is the difference between calling the semi final off for a team missing a few players and calling the final off for a team missing players?? what facts are we talking about here when we say get our facts rite?? as i mentioned earlier in the post the traditional boxing day final has only taken place once in the last 5 years, and since 2000 it has only been on boxing morning 3 times max!! all these were re arranged for various reasons, weather, a protest by a team and one year it didnt take place until may due to a boycott of wakehurst by the teams who use it!! should these teams been booted out of the competition?? and was it an embarrassment these years that the final wasnt played on time??? I think the point that doc and raj are trying to make is that a final that is traditionally played on boxing Day had a great opportunity to be played this year but because of one teams "lack of knowledge" or "lack of team" or "lack of respect" or whatever they went to the league and got it cancelled. The fact that the league agreed so easily to this being cancelled is very frustrating especially when as you state bchoops88 the final has not had the chance to be played on Boxing Day as regularly as it should be in the past few years. But surely this was the perfect opportunity to get it played on its traditional day. I think it should be stated by the league that where possible the O'kane Cup final is to be played on Boxing day and all teams should be prepared to play on that morning if they make it to the final. If the Boxing Day final does not mean that much to the BSML then they should state that to the teams so that they are aware that it is not so important to get the final played on Boxing Day. My understanding from years ago was that it was very important to get the 2 teams into the final as soon as possible so that the final could be played on Boxing Day. If this has changed then the league should state this. Personally although not on the big pitch I like the final on Boxing Day as I feel you get a bigger turnout as people are off work and the atmosphere is better as you don't have 200 people spread out through the stands at the big pitch. Anyway point I'm trying to make is that I think Doc and Raj are a bit miffed because as 2 people who have been around the league for many years they appreciate tradition and would have liked to have seen the final played on Boxing Day. The fact that Inter Stars or any other team for that matter decided that they couldn't play that day for whatever reason and the league has backed them up is frustrating. |
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Post by bremner on Jan 5, 2009 14:38:26 GMT
Well said Header, and very well put.
My point is a slightly different angle.
Below is Rule 13 and 13A as in the BSML Rules for 2007 - 2008
RULE 13
A team wishing to call off a match for any reason must notify in writing the League Secretary and opposing team before 12pm two days before date of match. Reason for calling off match must be included. If the opposing team does not agree to postponement of the match they can protest to League and a ruling on match will be given by the Council prior to the date match was arranged for. Any 2 teams can call a match off if they are in agreement and have notified League Secretary. In the event of a Referee turning up at a postponed match the team which required the postponement will be responsible for Referee's fee and other expenses.
RULE 13A
However, where a team gives the League Secretary at least FIVE WEEKS WRITTEN notice of a date when their club will be unavailable for fixtures, the Club shall be permitted to have no fixture on the date.
As far as Ive read, none of the above happened. So from an outsider it looks like that the league made the decision on their own without following the rules. Now, I am one that has been on the other side of breaking rules, and yes I regret it but Monte and the crew are sticklers for the Rules but yet they now have overruled them and broken them. Not good for all the other teams in the past who have accepted their punishment and been criticized for it.
Your also contradict yourself bchoops as you ask how many times has the final been played on boxing day since 2000. I think you quite rightly stated that the final had to be "Rearranged"....rearranged from what....oh thats right...Boxing Day. As Header has pointed out, its a tradition and a date penciled in from the start of each season.
I have no interested in what was said and what wasn't by either of the teams. Its none of my business. What is annoying for me is that Rules have not been adhered to (and without sounding raciest as I certainly am not) I feel this was over-ruled because who was in the final. Any other team.....IMO it would be tough, you would have had to play it. It happened to RAFC in last years Play-off semi final and they had to play it.
End of Rant for me. Good luck to both teams whenever the final is played.
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Post by BFP on Jan 5, 2009 15:21:26 GMT
Bremner, to be fair the rules you broke were alot different than the ones that are being "slightly bent" in this case. You played illegal players therefore tried to cheat your opposition out of a place in the play off final. The ones being "slightly bent" in this case are trying to accomodate a team (and any team would have been treated the same by the league under similar circumstances) who are away from their familes and loved ones for a large part of the year so they can work and send money back to their families and help them lead a better life back home. Everyone wants to see their kids, brothers, sisters, parents etc over the christmas period, and it would be pretty miserly of the league or any team to stop this from happening.
You could possibly argue that the match should have went ahead on this date and if Inter Stars couldnt field a team then the trophy should be awarded to Carniny. Personally I would prefer to allow the match to be postponed and played at a later date, no team wants to win a trophy without having to play the final, but if Carniny dont want to waste a Saturday playing this final, then I imagine Inter Stars would have no problem in letting Carniny claim the trophy. May I suggest that Carniny put this suggestion to Inter Stars and the league committe on Tuesday night.
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Post by Header on Jan 5, 2009 16:27:58 GMT
Bremner, to be fair the rules you broke were alot different than the ones that are being "slightly bent" in this case. You played illegal players therefore tried to cheat your opposition out of a place in the play off final. The ones being "slightly bent" in this case are trying to accomodate a team (and any team would have been treated the same by the league under similar circumstances) who are away from their familes and loved ones for a large part of the year so they can work and send money back to their families and help them lead a better life back home. Everyone wants to see their kids, brothers, sisters, parents etc over the christmas period, and it would be pretty miserly of the league or any team to stop this from happening. You could possibly argue that the match should have went ahead on this date and if Inter Stars couldnt field a team then the trophy should be awarded to Carniny. Personally I would prefer to allow the match to be postponed and played at a later date, no team wants to win a trophy without having to play the final, but if Carniny dont want to waste a Saturday playing this final, then I imagine Inter Stars would have no problem in letting Carniny claim the trophy. May I suggest that Carniny put this suggestion to Inter Stars and the league committe on Tuesday night. Agree with everything you say in your first paragraph Paul but the point is it is not the fact that Inter Stars asked for the match to be cancelled it was the way they asked and the ease at which the league appears to have agreed. I don't think for any minute that Carniny will ever ask for the trophy on the conditions that you suggest so i don't think it will be suggested to the league committee on Tuesday night. However i do think a suggestion should be put forward that the Boxing Day Final as it is known is scrapped that way there are no noses put out of joint by it not being played. As much as I like the final played on Boxing Day if it causing this much grief it aint worth the hassle. We are in changing times and maybe all Cup Finals should not be arranged until the 2 finalists are known therefore nothing is taken for granted. I for one like Doc thought the O'Kane Cup almost took priority so that it was played on Boxing Day but as I stated before if this is not the case anymore (or maybe never was !!!) then the league committee should state this and let everybody move on. |
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Post by bremner on Jan 5, 2009 16:47:17 GMT
Bremner, to be fair the rules you broke were alot different than the ones that are being "slightly bent" in this case. You played illegal players therefore tried to cheat your opposition out of a place in the play off final. The ones being "slightly bent" in this case are trying to accomodate a team (and any team would have been treated the same by the league under similar circumstances) who are away from their familes and loved ones for a large part of the year so they can work and send money back to their families and help them lead a better life back home. Everyone wants to see their kids, brothers, sisters, parents etc over the christmas period, and it would be pretty miserly of the league or any team to stop this from happening. You could possibly argue that the match should have went ahead on this date and if Inter Stars couldnt field a team then the trophy should be awarded to Carniny. Personally I would prefer to allow the match to be postponed and played at a later date, no team wants to win a trophy without having to play the final, but if Carniny dont want to waste a Saturday playing this final, then I imagine Inter Stars would have no problem in letting Carniny claim the trophy. May I suggest that Carniny put this suggestion to Inter Stars and the league committe on Tuesday night. bfp....breaking the rules is breaking the rules. I too agree with you that families should be with each other at Christmas time and have nothing against other European workers working here. In fact I had 6 Polish working for me in the past and they were excellent guys....but rather than give me a jag, you too miss the point. Rule 13 is clear and this did not happen. Its wrong for Monte to decide on behalf of any team....thats my point. Especially when he is so strict on teams about Rules. He should have acted within the rules. For your information, I asked for last years playoff semi to be put back to the Monday night as I had players away. I had already agreed to change the original date for Northend as they requested. I was told only if Northend agreed. I told both Northend and Monte that I could not field a team on the Saturday. Ask Joe from Northend, he will confirm that. Either I conceeded the game or I fielded a team with non signed players. I chose the later. Whats the difference in this case. My players were at a stag weekend which was arranged for many months...Monte could have easily put it back til the Monday. As I have always stated, I regretted my actions and were rightly removed from the competition. And just to prove that I hold no remorse. I agreed to call the game off against Penarol this season as Northend could not field a team. |
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Post by keeler82 on Jan 5, 2009 19:44:26 GMT
joe your missing the point, can you tell me who from carniny agreed to call the final off???
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Post by jnr88 on Jan 5, 2009 19:55:16 GMT
keeler as far as i am aware ur secretary informed the league on the sunday after the semi final that it was ok with carniny?? if this was not ok at this time with carniny then why not say so and then inter stars would have had to put a letter in and a decision taken from their!!
as i have said earlier in the thread i think that with the final being put back, that it now makes for a better final as we have arguably the 2 best footballing sides in the league coming up against each other on the main arena, and good luck to both carniny and inter stars!!
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Post by keeler82 on Jan 5, 2009 20:25:27 GMT
as far as you are aware! i know for a fact that know one from carniny agreed to the final being called off. your father made that decision on the Thursday before the final, so how could our secretary make that decision on the Sunday?
PS we have nothing against inter stars, its the way this has all been handled by the league.
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Post by BFP on Jan 5, 2009 22:27:49 GMT
Bremner, to be fair the rules you broke were alot different than the ones that are being "slightly bent" in this case. You played illegal players therefore tried to cheat your opposition out of a place in the play off final. The ones being "slightly bent" in this case are trying to accomodate a team (and any team would have been treated the same by the league under similar circumstances) who are away from their familes and loved ones for a large part of the year so they can work and send money back to their families and help them lead a better life back home. Everyone wants to see their kids, brothers, sisters, parents etc over the christmas period, and it would be pretty miserly of the league or any team to stop this from happening. You could possibly argue that the match should have went ahead on this date and if Inter Stars couldnt field a team then the trophy should be awarded to Carniny. Personally I would prefer to allow the match to be postponed and played at a later date, no team wants to win a trophy without having to play the final, but if Carniny dont want to waste a Saturday playing this final, then I imagine Inter Stars would have no problem in letting Carniny claim the trophy. May I suggest that Carniny put this suggestion to Inter Stars and the league committe on Tuesday night. Agree with everything you say in your first paragraph Paul but the point is it is not the fact that Inter Stars asked for the match to be cancelled it was the way they asked and the ease at which the league appears to have agreed. I don't think for any minute that Carniny will ever ask for the trophy on the conditions that you suggest so i don't think it will be suggested to the league committee on Tuesday night. However i do think a suggestion should be put forward that the Boxing Day Final as it is known is scrapped that way there are no noses put out of joint by it not being played. As much as I like the final played on Boxing Day if it causing this much grief it aint worth the hassle. We are in changing times and maybe all Cup Finals should not be arranged until the 2 finalists are known therefore nothing is taken for granted. I for one like Doc thought the O'Kane Cup almost took priority so that it was played on Boxing Day but as I stated before if this is not the case anymore (or maybe never was !!!) then the league committee should state this and let everybody move on. i absolutely agree with everything in this post, would be good to have the final on boxing day if possible, but as you say, lets not arrange any finals until both teams are known. |
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Post by BFP on Jan 5, 2009 22:36:15 GMT
Bremner, to be fair the rules you broke were alot different than the ones that are being "slightly bent" in this case. You played illegal players therefore tried to cheat your opposition out of a place in the play off final. The ones being "slightly bent" in this case are trying to accomodate a team (and any team would have been treated the same by the league under similar circumstances) who are away from their familes and loved ones for a large part of the year so they can work and send money back to their families and help them lead a better life back home. Everyone wants to see their kids, brothers, sisters, parents etc over the christmas period, and it would be pretty miserly of the league or any team to stop this from happening. You could possibly argue that the match should have went ahead on this date and if Inter Stars couldnt field a team then the trophy should be awarded to Carniny. Personally I would prefer to allow the match to be postponed and played at a later date, no team wants to win a trophy without having to play the final, but if Carniny dont want to waste a Saturday playing this final, then I imagine Inter Stars would have no problem in letting Carniny claim the trophy. May I suggest that Carniny put this suggestion to Inter Stars and the league committe on Tuesday night. bfp....breaking the rules is breaking the rules. I too agree with you that families should be with each other at Christmas time and have nothing against other European workers working here. In fact I had 6 Polish working for me in the past and they were excellent guys....but rather than give me a jag, you too miss the point. Rule 13 is clear and this did not happen. Its wrong for Monte to decide on behalf of any team....thats my point. Especially when he is so strict on teams about Rules. He should have acted within the rules. For your information, I asked for last years playoff semi to be put back to the Monday night as I had players away. I had already agreed to change the original date for Northend as they requested. I was told only if Northend agreed. I told both Northend and Monte that I could not field a team on the Saturday. Ask Joe from Northend, he will confirm that. Either I conceeded the game or I fielded a team with non signed players. I chose the later. Whats the difference in this case. My players were at a stag weekend which was arranged for many months...Monte could have easily put it back til the Monday. As I have always stated, I regretted my actions and were rightly removed from the competition. And just to prove that I hold no remorse. I agreed to call the game off against Penarol this season as Northend could not field a team. fair point, i understand the situation, but all the football had to be finished by a certain date, and this date couldnt have been achieved if the match was postponed, if it was earlier in the season then there wouldnt have been a problem. we were in a difficult situation last year with our second final, it was to be played on the last day of the season, the friday night, but there was something pending regarding a person in our team, and if things happened a different way, we wouldnt have been able to field a team on that date, we explained this to the league and were told it was impossible for it to be on a different date, so we told the league if this situation arose then we would have to forfeit the cup, we were told that the league couldnt have done anything about it. so we just accepeted it. as for saying the league is always a stickler for the rules, well i disagree with that, if you have a word with monte about things, he is usually more than happy to accomodate and help teams out, although towards the end of the season this is very difficult as the season has to be drawn to a close on time, to allow such things as trophies to be handed back and engraved in time for the prizegiving which was more than likely booked in excess of 8 months prior to the event. |
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Post by BFP on Jan 5, 2009 22:38:54 GMT
your father made that decision on the Thursday before the final, so how could our secretary make that decision on the Sunday? i am pretty sure monte didnt make the decision on Christmas day!!! |
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Post by raj2112 on Jan 6, 2009 1:54:54 GMT
your father made that decision on the Thursday before the final, so how could our secretary make that decision on the Sunday? i am pretty sure monte didnt make the decision on Christmas day!!! He meant to say the Thursday before the semi-final. |
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Post by raj2112 on Jan 6, 2009 2:06:22 GMT
by carniny agreeing to calling off the semi final with ballykeel on the 13th did this not jeapordise the "annual" boxing day final??? yes carniny did get a league game arranged for this day and it was called off, but what is the difference between calling the semi final off for a team missing a few players and calling the final off for a team missing players?? The difference is that Ballykeel approached us about calling it off on the 13th. We were agreeable only if the League could have fixed us up with a League match on the 13th. Which they did. If Inter Stars had approached us, we would have been agreeable to call it off. But they never. It was League who informed us that the final was off. And if the league never had the intention of playing the final on Boxing Day, why try to fit in the quarter-finals and semi-finals in the run up to Christmas? One question Bchoops88 - If Ahoghill Rovers had won the semi-final against Inter Stars, would the final have been played on Boxing Day? |
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Post by jnr88 on Jan 6, 2009 8:14:24 GMT
more than likely the final would have been played on boxing day if ahoghill rovers were in it!! inter stars approached yourselves via the league secretary raj!! if they had approached your secretary personally would it been different??
keeler the thursday nite before the semi final my father rang and asked your secretary if use had made a decision and he told him that use couldnt make a decision until after the semi final, which is fair enough!! what my father then said was that he had sounded out the league council about it and if there had to be a decision made on it that the final would more than likely been put back!! this did not mean that carniny could not disagree with the final being put back, as they could have said no and then it would have went to a decision!!
and as i have said before i think this has been blown out of all proportion!!
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Post by raj2112 on Jan 21, 2009 23:23:49 GMT
All is well that ends well.
Looking at the crowd tonight, I think if we had got to play it on Boxing Day, there certainly would have been a bigger crowd, therefore bringing in more revenue for the BSML.
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Post by homers-num4 on Apr 6, 2009 13:02:49 GMT
final should have been played boxing day-end off
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